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Standing Out in a Sea of Sameness (with John Livesay)

How do you set yourself apart from all the others? Whether it’s in your business, career, sidehustle, or just in life, the key is though connecting with others through better communication and storytelling.

John Livesay, aka “The Pitch Whisperer”, storytelling expert, and host of “The Successful Pitch” podcast, shares how to use storytelling to stand out in a sea of sameness. He discusses:

  • Creating an elevator story instead of an elevator pitch
  • Creating compelling stories that connect with people
  • Three things every story should be

And then we go beyond storytelling and he shares:

  • Becoming a “progressionist” instead of a perfectionist (I love this!)
  • When we are not where we thought we’d be by this point in our lives
  • What to do when you’ve done everything right and it still doesn’t work out
  • Our responsibility for the choices we make after something happens
  • Detaching from outcomes

That’s a lot in only thirty or so minutes, so let’s get started!


Next Steps:

Connect with John at

Watch his TEDx talk:


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Social Links:

Instagram: @MidlifeMasteryPodcast


Facebook: @MidlifeMasteryPodcast


Other Resources:

Imperfect Action! Podcast My other podcast. Providing ideas, information, and inspiration from entrepreneurs, bestselling writers, experts, fitness champions, and musicians who have ignored common wisdom and charted their own course.



Episode Transcription

Note: this was transcribed by AI so please excuse any errors or grammatical weirdness in transcription.

Broc:  All right so this is. Broc Edwards, of course. And today’s guest is John Livesay. And John actually, there is so much about you. I’m not even sure where to start introducing you. So like, if I look at your website, you, you list yourself as a keynote speaker, the pitch whisper, and a storytelling experts, and that in itself covers a lot of ground.

So how do you introduce yourself?

John: I talk about. You know how so many people, especially coaches and consultants, and a lot of professional services, people are all struggling to stand out in a sea of sameness. And I’m the pitch whisper and helps them tell stories because whoever tells the best story is the one that gets hired.

And after somebody learns how to become a storyteller, their business takes off. That’s usually my little elevator story.

Broc:  So their business takes off after they tell a better story. Why is that?

John: Yes. Well, the whole goal of any story, especially a little elevator story. And notice I said elevator story instead of elevator pitch is to intrigue people enough to do what you just did, even if you’re not being interviewed.

So imagine a cocktail party, you say something like that. You people are intrigued enough. What, what’s a pitch whisper. I know dog whispered horse whisper. Or why is that? Why is the person who tells the best story? So it doesn’t matter what you ask it’s that you’ve planted something intriguing enough to get people to say, well, that’s interesting.

Tell me more about this. And so that starts a conversation. So in your particular question our brains are wired for storytelling. You know, we used to sit around when we lived in caves, the glow of campfire is telling stories. And now we sit around the globe PowerPoints in corporate America, but we buy emotionally and then back it up with logic.

So storytelling and listening and empathy and all those skills are really what drive a sale, not information. And the other problem that’s existing is people forget half of what you say. If you’re pushing out a bunch of facts and figures and storytelling makes something memorable. And the reason why it works for sales so well is when you tug at people’s heartstrings, they want to open the purse strings.

And when they see themselves in the story, then they want to go on the journey with you.

Broc: So that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. Now, does that work outside of sales as well, and other aspects of career, like other jobs

John:  we’re, we’re selling ourselves all the time, whether you have that job title or not, you have to sell yourself to get hired, to get yourself promoted, to get your ideas implemented.

So yes, whoever tells the best story is the one that gets the yes.

Broc: When we think about this you know, I don’t know, I just thinking about kind of the telling the best stories. I think of  two aspects, and  I may be taking this deeper than, than you intended, but you know, we’ve, we’ve got the story.

We tell others the I was going to say pitch, but you, you already said, no, it’s not pitch, you know, it’s a story, but, and we’ve also got the story that we tell ourselves and. So I guess so many places I could go with this, but I am curious. What about the stories that we tell ourselves? How does that affect things?

John: Well, Broc that’s everything I tell everyone that we are the movie directors of our own life and we can yell, cut at any time we can change the location, we can change the people. So the only place there’s any peace of mind is in the present moment right now, right here, talking to you. Completely happy.

There’s nowhere else. I’d rather be boom I’m in the moment. If I start thinking about something somebody said or did or mistakes I made in the past, now I’m playing that movie or I’m worried about the future and all the, what if that happens and what if this happens now I’m playing a horror movie. So I yell, cut and get back into the present.

Cause that’s the only place there’s any happiness. So we are always deciding what story we’re telling ourselves. The difference between I’m scared versus I’m excited when you have to give a presentation or a pitch or talk or whatever it is, you know, the body, the butterflies in our stomach. We get nervous, right?

The adrenaline kicks in. We get to decide if we tell ourselves a story of, oh, this is my Superbowl of meetings. This is my Olympic moment. I’m ready. Or, oh my God, I’m paralyzed with fear. So the body’s like you’re excited or you’re scared. You get to just, you get to label it.

Broc: That’s interesting because you know, thinking about it, it does feel pretty much the same way, like,

John: It does.

Yeah. You’re walking down the aisle to get married. I’m I scared and excited or both. But you know, I tell people the butterflies in the stomach, a lot of people resist it or resent it or get freaked out when it happens. I go, no, no, no. The goal is to get the butterflies in your stomach to fly in formation.

And when that happens, you get the nervous energy out of your stomach and into the room you get out of your head worrying about whether people like you or not, and you make it about them and not about you. Oh,

Broc: so tell me more about that, but making that about them versus making it about ourselves.

John: We’re in our head and we’re wondering, am I good enough?

I really need this sale. Am I comparing myself to other people and coming up short all of that is completely unproductive. But when we get in our head about all right, I’ve prepared for this, I have a technique. I call it stacking your moments of certainty. When you write down two or three times, you knew you nailed something, you got a sale, you got hired, you got a promotion and you remember those things as opposed to the negative self-talk.

Then you’re reframing what’s in your head and what’s in your movie.

Broc: Nice. I like that. I mean, that’s just, the situation is the same, but I can just imagine that you know, the story we’re telling and that the, how we’re feeling, well, not even just how we’re feeling, because we are, I mentioned that how we’re feeling, we can interpret several ways, but just. You know, entering that, meeting that Tufts situation, whatever it is on the positive note on feeling like, oh yeah, I’m, I’ve got this, I’ve done this before.

It’s so different than man. I sure hope I don’t really, really screw this up. Right.

John: Exactly. You know, we’re in charge of building our own confidence and, you know, there’s all kinds of techniques to do that versus just being at the effect of whatever thought randomly crosses our brain.

Broc: Well, when we, when we think about I’m going to zoom out here a little bit, cause we’re talking about specific situations and you know, but one of the things that we often experience it as we go through life and you and I were talking about this just a little bit before we hit record was, you know, the story we’ve been telling ourselves on where we thought we would be in life, you know, by this stage of life.

I was going to be doing this. And, you know, I know almost no one who’s been there because either positive or negative things, you know, just life turns out different than they thought it would when they were 18. So when we get there, I can imagine that being kind of disempowering, we always start comparing ourselves to others.

Oh, this person I graduated with now, they’re, you know, this executive role I’m not, or I’m at a lesser committed company or they’ve got a better spouse or a better house, or, you know, whatever measure we’re using. So how can we, what do we do there? Because that is so disempowering.

John: Yes. Well, the irony is even people who have a huge success at a very young age, then they have to live with the fear of, oh my God. If I peaked, if I win an Oscar at 21, is that it? Am I ever going to win another one? That’s it. So we think success not soon enough or too soon, it’s all just the same game of losing our identity. And when we remember that, who we are is bigger than any one thing happening to us.

Whether we’re getting laid off. Like I did back in 2008 or getting rehired two years later in winning salesperson of the year. I thought, wait a minute, I’m the same person. And I’ve got to get off this self-esteem rollercoaster where I only feel good if my. Numbers are up and my success is happening, or I feel bad about myself if I’m getting laid off.

And when we are free from looking outside of ourselves for our self-esteem, then we don’t compare ourselves to other people. And we certainly don’t react as dramatically as we might by any one thing happening.

Broc: Well, actually tell me a little bit about this, you know, cause so often we tie our career up with our self identity and yet there, I mean, when we get laid off that generally isn’t within our control at all.

There’s so many external factors that contribute to that. So we can show up thinking, you know, I’ve been doing a great job, you know, when, when, when school studied hard, got this job worked hard, right? And yet I’m still laid off. How did you keep that from just being kind of devastating on the, you know, the identity level?

John: Well, in the moment it was, it felt like a kick to the gut. And then, you know, I had to get they said, you know, we’re laying off everyone outside of New York and 30% of the New York staff. And you have to be out in 24 hours and I’d been there 15 years. So I had to get some help to clean up my office that fast.

But I said to my boss, Well, don’t, you need a status report of where the ads should be running. I was selling advertising for Conde Nast. And what page would, that would be great, but everyone else is so angry. They’re just storming out and I’d been a lifeguard in my college days and that training to not panic and stay calm kicked in.

And that’s what allowed me to ask that question. And I thought I’m not going to do that to the people I’ve watched get married and have kids, my clients, even just because something bad is happening to me. So little, did I know that that one decision would allow me to get rehired back? But a friend of mine had said, you know what, what’s happening to you with the print industry reminds me of what happened to the silent movie actors.

Some made it to talkies and some didn’t and you have to decide if you’re willing to learn a new skill. And that framework Broc really helps me say, oh, I am at choice again. Am I going to be like a silent movie star or stay in the past? And I think. I love that analogy really works for all of us to realize, oh, you know, are we going to learn blockchain?

Are we going to learn Tik TOK? You know, we don’t maybe want to have to learn everything, but we always are. It’s a choice of what we’re deciding. We’re going to embrace.

Broc: So what was, and I mean, either for you or for the silent movie actors, cause it’s been a while since I thought about silent movies, but that was such a huge leap in technology and approach to how they were doing things.

What was it that enabled some to thrive and others just to completely sink?

John: Well, part of it is background and training. If you had a theater background that you were used to speaking on stage. And if you, didn’t your willingness to get training on how to be good on camera and speak. And, you know, even if you didn’t have a great voice, you know, everything, it’s a skill you can learn.

So I think, but some people have an ego, like I’m a big silent movie star. I’m not going back to, I’m going to go learn. I’m out of my comfort zone. So those are choices that we’re constantly making with new technology and new ways of doing things. Some people are really uncomfortable today making videos for social media.

And a lot of it goes back to that feeling. I think of having to be a perfectionist all the time. And we talked before the show about I’ve given people a new framework on that, which is, think of yourself as a progressionist. Because our brains are wired to celebrate progress. You think your Fitbit or even video games, you reach the next level.

So when you’re climbing, you want to say Mount Everest and you’re halfway up, you have a choice. You can look down and go look how much progress I’ve made or look how much further I have to go.

Broc:  I love that word  progressionist versus perfectionist.  It’s an interesting reminder because we tend to think that today is the first time technology has ever disrupted our lives, right.

Industry, our careers. And yet, I mean, no, you know, we’re pushing what, 90 years ago that they switched That was a total disruption as well then,

John: too buggy to cars, I mean, and now driverless cars. So, you know, it’s always, you look back at the history. Oh, that was a big disruption. People were out of work who made buggy whips.

Yeah. Yeah.

Broc: Totally, totally. And so I, and I, I guess to me, that’s actually comforting. It’s like, yeah, we’ve been through this before. Yeah, we’ve gone through a change. Technology comes in, it moves things around. We have to learn new stuff. So I, you you’ve made the comment in the past that nobody’s coming to rescue you in your own life.

And so Well, first off, let me ask why is that? Why, why isn’t anyone coming to rescue me? I mean, I think that I think they

John: should, well, it would be nice. It certainly, as a child, we’ve someone is always going to be there. My TEDx talk is called, be the lifeguard of your own life. You know, in hurricane situations that people don’t evacuate, they typically will send a helicopter and if they can, but in our personal life and in our careers, If you get laid off, there’s no one sending a helicopter to rescue us.

That’s because we have to take responsibility for the choices we make after something happens. Do we hold onto our identity or do we feel like this is going to devastate me? I think the secret is how fast do we get back up after we’ve been knocked down? Do we hold onto it? Oh my God. I got laid off in October.

I can’t possibly interview. I’ve got to lick my wounds for three months until the new year. Or do we like, okay, I’m going to start putting, sending stuff out now it’s all a choice. Everything’s a choice as to how fast we get back up. We get to know whether it’s a promotion or getting hired. Do we let it devastate us or do we go onto the next I don’t know.

Do we keep thinking about that? No. And reliving that past moment over and over again in which makes us hesitant to take any risks in the present. Well,

Broc: so I was going to ask the question, you know, how do we rescue ourselves? But I think you’ve already answered it there, you know? And you took us right back to the stories that we’re telling ourselves on.

Do I, am I a person who gets up and get going? Or am I a person who needs to feel this pain for. Really

John: long time. Right. And you know, the people who need to typically feel the pain for a really long time or keep playing the past movies are the ones that don’t perform well, real estate agents that move on perform while real estate agents that keep thinking about a deal they lost two or three months ago and keep talking about it and bringing that up are the ones that.

Are always complaining and not in the moment.

Broc: Well, I mean, so we’ve been talking about, we’ve been talking kind of around storytelling, John, so, you know, you’ve already made the case that, well, one, we improve our own lives by the stories we’re telling ourselves, but we started this really with the stories that we tell others.

Whether we’re talking about sales, growing our businesses and entrepreneur, or just growing our own career, wherever we’re at in our career through storytelling. How do people get good at, like where do you even start if you’ve never thought about this as a skill to develop?

John: Sure. Well, the good news is it is a skill you can develop.

And I’ve created an online experience where I teach people the structure of a good story. And I say the sale is in the tail T a L E, and the story has four good elements, exposition, the who, what, where, when you have to paint that picture to pull people in, and then you describe the problem in any good story, this the problem, the stakes are high, otherwise you don’t care.

And then you present your solution. And then the secret sauce Broc is the resolution. What is life like after someone’s hired you bought something from you. Imagine if the wizard of Oz ended when Dorothy got in the balloon to go back to Kansas and they just went the end, as opposed to that wonderful resolution scene where she’s at home again and says, oh, wow, there’s no place like home.

And you were there. And all these insights come flooding in. That’s what makes a great story. So When you’re selling something, you have a choice again, do I push out a bunch of facts and figures? Oh, this I was working with a medical healthcare company and I said, what are you saying now? Well, it makes the surgeries go 30% faster.

Doc, do you want one? I’m like, yeah, there’s no story there. So instead, the story that I teach, taught them to tell is magic. How happy Dr. Higgins was down at long beach Memorial, six months ago using our equipment. He’d go out to the patient’s family in the waiting room. And if you’ve ever waited for someone that you love to come out of surgery, you know, every minute feels like an hour.

And he came out an hour earlier than expected and put them out of their waiting misery and said, good news, the scope shows they don’t have cancer. They’re going to be fine. And the doctor turns to the rep and says, you know, that’s why I became a doctor for moments like this. Now that rep tells that story to another doctor at another hospital who sees themselves in the story and says, that’s why I became a doctor too.

I want your equipment.

Broc: You know, so  what occurs to me and is that at, is all about them and how they are going to feel?

John: Yeah. You’re not the hero of the story at all. You’re the Sherpa.

Broc: Well, and I think that’s an important distinction because when we, when we think about, you know, Promoting ourselves or personal branding or getting our elevator pitch, you know, w well that’s about us, or we think it’s about us, but, but you’re viewing it through totally different lands.

How, how do we shift that from, I mean, we’re trying to benefit from the story we’re telling, but we’re trying to tell it in a way that they are the hero of it.

John: Yes. That’s, you know what? I did this for the client. They said, wow, that gives us chills. Not only are we not telling stories, but it never occurred to us to make the patient’s family in the waiting room, a character in the story.

And then I teach people, some techniques like pulling you into the story even more with, if you’ve ever waited for somebody you love. Right. And even if you haven’t, you probably know someone who has, so now you’re really in the moment. And also there’s some techniques about when you tell a story, tell it in present tense.

So the dialogue I created was the doctor turning to the patient’s family saying good news. The scope shows that, you know, so you feel like you’re listening to what’s happening as opposed to the doctor told them that their loved one was okay. Very different.

Broc: I have never heard it before John and that is that’s really powerful.

Because when I would tell a story, well, it’s something that happened in the past. So I would probably naturally tell it in past tense.

John: Yeah, no, you can recreate that scene and tell it in present tense. I’ll give you another example. When I met Michael Phelps I went up to him at an event I was doing with Speedo and I said, Michael, Everyone says you’re so successful because your feet are like thins, but in your lungs are bigger than the average person.

I’m guessing there’s something else Michael said to me. Yes, John, when I was younger, my coach said to me, Michael, are you willing to work out on Sundays? Yes, coach. Great. We just got it. 52 more workouts in a year than the competition.

So then I say to the audiences, when I tell that story, what are you willing to do that your competition? Isn’t so I give a takeaway from the story. But that story would not have nearly the impact. If I just said I met Michael Phelps and he told me he worked out on Sundays

Broc: and yet but that’s exactly what he said. So, so I, you know, you can totally feel the difference in impact. So how do you, but when we’re telling our own stories I can imagine it’s hard to, it’s really hard to edit your own writing. You know, it’s, if you’ve ever written your own resume, it’s never as good as when someone else helps you write it, you know, your bio, whatever.

So how can we improve our stories around that? How do we know what’s going to impact the other person and really drive it home and get those chills?

John: Well, I think a lot of people have realized, Hey, I need to be good at this. Or if I’m good at this, I want to be a black belt in it. And so you start reading books on it, you start taking courses in it.

You start investing in it as a skilled I say soft skills with storytelling typically falls under make you strong, which again, there’s a dichotomy. So if you’re a an architect or a lawyer or whatever your thing is that makes that’s, that’s your hard skills. You’re going to lose business all the time or promotions to the person who has soft skills.

Developed and is invested in it and you did not.

Broc: Well, when we, have that story that we think is a great story, but  maybe it has that impact. And maybe it doesn’t do, we just like get all our friends in a corner and insist that they listen to it, or

John: That’s one way, I mean, if you’re not going to get professional training and feedback on it.

Sure. You can, you can tell the story. I give a checklist to people. I said, the story should be three things clear. Concise and compelling. And so before you start telling your story or putting it out there, use that little because the confused mind always says no. So if you’re not clear, they’re going to be like right.

Concise, no one, none of my stories go on for more than a few minutes, two minutes at the most, right. It’s not like you’re going out. It’s a 10 minute monologue or anything. And compelling is the emotional hook. Do you words. Like when I was talking about, you know, what, how do I describe myself, my elevator story.

I use the word struggle when I’m describing who I help. They struggle with standing out in a sea of sameness. That’s an emotional word. They go, oh, I’ve struggled with that too. So that’s what makes that story a little compelling, as opposed to just saying there’s a bunch of people who don’t know how to stand out.

Broc: It’s interesting how much difference that one word makes from, you know, I help people who don’t know how to stand out too, or even I help people stand out better to, I help those who struggle with standing out. I mean, that. Struggle has an emotional hook. As I say it, I can hear it, feel it.

John: Yeah.

Broc: Well, nice. So you know, another thing I was going to ask you about, cause I’ve seen your comment on this is brand attributes and, you know, kind of, kind of about personal branding, but what are brand attributes and how do they apply to us personally?

John: Well, especially if you’re interviewing for a job, I’ve worked with people a lot on this, and I said, you need to think of yourself as a brand.

Going to interview another brand and see if their brand attributes line up. So I have exercises I do with people on identifying what’s your brand, what are three things that define you as a brand? And typically that’s very difficult for people. So there’s some techniques I do by saying, what’s your favorite car, your favorite running shoe, your favorite computer.

And we pull out what you like about those things. And that’s a subconscious reflection of how you see yourself. So that’s very revealing for people, for me. It’s integrity, passion and joy. Those are my three brand attributes. And when I’m deciding whether I want to take a job or work for people, do they have integrity?

Am I passionate about this? Are they passionate about it and will bring me or somebody else joy? If I get a yes to all three of those things, then that’s my moral compass that I go, okay, this is a fit for me.

Broc: So how’d you identify that for you?

John: The integrity, passion and joy.

Broc: I mean, I imagine there’s, you know, number four, number five, number six, you could have.

John: Yes. Well, part of it has to do with values and you know, what you were brought up with. So in my case you know, my parents really instilled in me the. The need to do what you say you’re going to do. That’s a Midwest thing I was brought up with. So that’s really crucial for me that I interact with people who do that.

And you know, it could be little things like if you say to a client, oh, your ad’s going to appear on this page on this issue. And it doesn’t, that’s out of integrity. You know, I don’t want to work for a company that’s like, eh, just convince him. It’s fine. No, no, no, but we’ve promised all those. So, and then I don’t want to be in a place that doesn’t have any passion or joy, and I don’t want to be around people that don’t have passion and joy.

So those are, you know, I remember I got a speaking engagement. My agent said, oh, congrats. They interviewed you. And two other speakers, they liked your energy. And that was such a big reminder Broc that ultimately that’s what people are buying is our energy. Not our background, not how many books we’ve written, not.

I mean, all the other stuff is there. The content is there. The substance is there, but first they’re buying their energy. And later the person said to me, yeah, you made me feel so good after talking to you. I figured you’d make our audience feel that good. And that’s really what our big criteria was. We wanted them to be inspired and motivated and feel energized and then learn how to tell better stories.

So we can win more business, but ultimately if the energy and passion isn’t there, that’s not a fit.

Broc: No, I find that energy piece really interesting John, because I hadn’t thought about it. And so, but you’re right. So I can imagine. So two equally qualified people. Yeah. The one with great energy, the one that feels super engaged in their life, engaged in the conversation, engaged with you.

They immediately stand out, but then I can even ratchet that back. So even if we’re not talking about equal backgrounds, I’m probably giving the benefit of the doubt to the person. Yes, really seems excited to be there versus the one who, you know, is kind of a zombie going through their life. And I know I’m playing with extremes, but that is such a difference.

So I want to build on that a little bit and Kind of deviate from the time talking about stories in that. So when you talk about energy and that’s something that’s important to you  , what is it that you do to ensure like great energy and just the, you know, kind of, kind of the joy for life?

John: Well, I really big on what is my intention in this case to give incredible content and entertain at the same time and inspire people.

And I’m really passionate about helping people get off the self-esteem rollercoaster. So. I love telling stories. I mean, I had a client architecture firm and it was them and two other firms to renovate an airport and that whoever won would get a billion dollars and the client said to them, listen we’re going to hire the firm.

We like the most, because you could all do it otherwise you wouldn’t be in the final three. This firm called me up immediately and flew me there to work with him for two days, because they don’t know what to, they usually just show their designs and hope that’s enough to go like ability. We don’t even know where to start.

And I said, well, let’s start with what the team slide is going to be, which almost everybody shows. And I’m like, what are you going to say here? And they’re like, oh, my name is Bob. I’ve been here 10 years. I do this. I’m like, Ooh, Bob, what made you become an architect? Oh, I was 11 years old. I played with Legos.

Now I have a son that’s 11. I still play with Legos with him. That’s what made, I still have that same passion as a kid. Fantastic. So where were you before here? I was in the Israeli army. I’m like, okay. I bet you learned a lot about focus and discipline and since you’re in charge of making sure this thing comes on time and under budget, you have the perfect background.

So that’s what enabled them. To be memorable. And the people were like, oh, we like those people. We connect, we have a story with each of those little people. And so it totally changed their energy in the room because they went from just reciting their boring bio to telling a personal story that made the room light up and made people feel connected to them and want to work with them.

Broc: when we think about why people don’t do that more, I know. And I’m imagining here, so, you know, correct me if I’m veering off base here, but that immediately causes them to look different and stand out. And that can feel risky. Like if we do what everyone else does and we failed.

Okay. But we did what everyone else did versus, oh, we took a risk and it failed. Oh, shame on us. You know, I’ve heard it said in it’s you know, basically, and I forget the guy’s name is set up, but you know, it’s better to fail conventionally than to succeed, unconventionally. He was a director in Hollywood.

And so anyway, I’m just thinking, helping people stand out in that way that,

John: yeah, what’s the unspoken fear that’s spoken here is the fear of rejection. Yeah. And certainly being in sales my career, I know that you know, I would present to a client and they go, Hey, we’re going with somebody else or another brand.

And I’m the Ooh. Maybe somebody better in sales would have gotten a yes or maybe they’re right. Maybe that other brand is better than mine. And I realized, what am I doing? I’m rejecting myself and what I’m selling. And just that awareness is the cut as the director of the movie. I’m like, no, now it doesn’t mean no forever, just because they reject me.

Doesn’t mean I have to agree with it. And so. When we are vulnerable and tell a little personal story, like I played with Legos when I was 11, or this is what I did before coming here. That’s how we connect it’s we think nobody wants to people, we have to build trust and likeability and a sense of, I want to work with these people in this case for the next six years.

How are we going to do that? By letting our mask down a little bit and telling a little bit of a personal story. And so yes, the rejection might be a tad more painful if they go, oh God, I told them something about me and they still rejected me versus I’ll just hide behind this corporate mask of, this is what I do.

And this is, these are my credentials and I got rejected fine, but that’s not really living. That’s not really fully alive. And I, you know, that’s that whole premise of, I don’t really want to work that hard for an interview for a job, because if I don’t get it, I can just say, well, I didn’t put everything into it, but if I put everything into it and I still get rejected, then it’s going to be really be done stating it’s it’s like dating in your personal life.

I mean, that was like, Do you want to play games with people and just pretend like you’re not interested when you really are. What do you just want to go full out and go, listen, I’d love to date you. I’d love to work with you if that’s not a fit it’s okay. Because we’re not attached to the outcome. That’s the key to not taking rejection personally.

Broc:  How do we separate from that? And I appreciate you mentioning that because yeah. If we’re attached to the outcome, then it’s, it’s devastating. So how do we, how do we detach and still

John: give it away? I would say that it’s a mindset thing again, of no one situation, no one client is the source of your good and that you either have an abundance mindset or a scarcity mindset.

If they say no, that’s their loss. It’s just not a fit. Okay. There’s somebody around the bend that it will be. And versus, oh, that was my one. And only chance at finding love or, or making my quota for the year or whatever your mind that was my dream job. And they’ll never be another dream job, you know, like people right now the housing market is crazy.

Right. And a lot of people are putting bins in their own houses and they’re not getting them. And how fast you get back up, right? Yes. That was a great house. Do you believe that that was the only house you ever be happy in? Where do you think? You know what? I didn’t even know the house existed two months ago.

Why am I so devastated that I didn’t get it? How about, I just have a belief that I’m going to get another great house or something even better.

Broc: I, I love that and I laugh because I’ve done that so often myself and just the. Yeah, two months ago, I didn’t know this job, this opportunity, this company, whatever it was even existed in my life was going just fine.

And yet now I’ve hooked everything to it. It’s, it’s ridiculous. When we think about it that way

John: I did it myself when a house back in the day and I was like, wait a minute. What’s going on here? Yeah. Well,

Broc: as we wrap up here, here, John, so a couple of things, one where can people find you? So you’ve mentioned books and resources and courses and where can they track you down?

John: The easiest is just to go to my website, John Livesay, L I V as in Victor, E S a If people take out their phone, I have a little gift for everybody. If you text the word pitch, P I T C H to six, six, eight, six, six, I send you a free PDF of my top storytelling tips. That’ll help everybody. So that’s a way for us to connect and or you can go to the website and opt in that way.

And if you can’t remember any of that, just Google the pitch whisper, and my content comes up.

Broc: Awesome. Very good. Well, final, final words as we wrap up here today, John, anything else we haven’t covered that just, it would be great for people to know?

John: Arthur Ash has a great quote that the key, the former tennis pro the key to success is confidence.

And the key to confidence is preparation and athletes do it. And movie stars do it. So let’s up our game and get as prepared as possible and learn how to tell great stories that make people feel good and want to take action.

Broc: I love it. That feels like a mic drop moment right there, John. So thank you so much for being on today.

This has been fantastic.

John: Thanks Broc.


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